39: Michelle From Mama Hu Hears on Self-Advocacy & Parent Support
Michelle, audiologist and hard of hearing adult, discusses her own experiences with hearing aids and CIs, self advocacy, and supporting parents of DHH students.
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39: Michelle From Mama Hu Hears on Self-Advocacy & Parent Support
[MUSIC]
D: Hello and welcome to the TOD POD, a podcast to support Itinerant Teachers of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing, SLPs, and other Deaf Education Professionals. I'm Deanna Barlow from Listening Fun and today we're talking we have a special guest Michelle from Mama Hu Hears. Thanks so much for being here Michelle.
M: I'm so excited to be here. This is gonna be so much fun.
D: Yes, can you tell everyone a little bit about yourself?
M: Yeah, so I am a pediatric audiologist I've been practicing for almost sixteen years now and I grew a hard of hearing myself. During Covid I was missing my patients, or actually during my second maternity leave I was missing my patients, and just the connection between them, their parents, and I thought, hmm what if I started sharing some personal experiences to be able to help those patients or those little kiddos by way of helping the parents. So I firmly believe the environment you grow up in is going to affect you negative, positive, however which way and if I could affect that or influence that environment for the kids a little bit then all the better because I know my mom didn't have Google didn't have...
D: Mhmm.
M: I mean community resources to lean on when she was a hearing mom of a Deaf and hard of hearing kid herself and I'm thinking what can I do? What can I do to support that mom? What can I do to support that little little kid Michelle? And that's how my community was kind of born.
D: Yeah I see I feel like it's so helpful to follow you on Instagram because you have like all the audiology information but then also like the lived experience information and it's just like a double whammy of helpful information. [LAUGH]
M: Thank you, thank you. That's what I'm hoping for.
D: So this podcast is mostly for Teachers of the Deaf. So I'd love to hear a lot about like your education experience and like if you had a TOD and what school looked like for you as a child growing up with hearing loss.
M: So I first got identified with my old hearing when I was about 3 to 4 years old. My preschool teacher said to my mom, Michelle is kind of sneaking off during story time. She's not do anything bad but she is humming to herself or she's reading her book on her own. I think she's having trouble hearing me when I'm reading the story. And my mom was just flabbergasted because I was conversing in English and Chinese I was you know learning how to read I was talking and she thought maybe it was my brother who wasn't very talkative himself.
D: Mhmm.
M: But no I had mild hearing levels and I don't remember anything in school until maybe third grade. So I know in first grade I had another sudden drop and my mom sat next to me [LAUGH] in first grade for like three days, when until my teacher Mrs Johnson, I'm still friends to her to live with her to this day, she said to my mom Pauline, Michelle's gonna be okay like she's paying attention, she's you know on top of it, and not to minimize it, but we're just learning colors and maybe numbers or whatever. But I do remember my mom had to be my advocate.
D: Yeah.
M: She said you know, so Carol Flexer was my pediatric audiologist and she would say you know preferential feeding doesn't necessarily mean like right in front of the classroom. What could we even do back then? Notes ahead of time. I did have a com tech FM system, so a neck loop around my neck body worn box on me, another body worn box with a wired microphone for the teacher. In first and second grade I'm like, do I go up to the teacher? Like luckily I don't think we switched classrooms. Music teacher came to us so she wore the microphone and then I think around third grade we had maybe a special education person. She was not a Teacher of the Deaf. And she was not an educational audiologist. She was someone who helped me charge the FM in the after school, helped me fix it if it was broken. I don't...
D: Did you have a hearing aid at that time?
M: I had hearing aids since age 3, bilateral. There were no closed captions on the television yet or videos. So I remember you know the VCR coming in with the tv on a big cart. Everyone would get excited and I would too. But I don't think I ever heard any of the words.
D: Yeah.
M: I just realized last December what Frosty the Snowman was saying because I find there was a closed caption version so won't know.
D: Yeah, those cartoons those cartoons are tricky.
M: They were very tricky and that probably made me not want to go to the movie theater. I didn't go to movie theaters for probably 15 years. Watching TV shows with hard I didn't know many of the characters names unless you know my brother told me or if it was written somewhere. I did go to speech therapy at school with maybe 2 or 3 other kids. But my mom really really had to be an advocate for me telling the teacher this is what my audiologist said, this is how the fm system works, this is what you need to buy for her. So nothing was set in place I don't even know if I, I must have had an IEP.
D: Honestly, this is something I've heard a lot from people who are like around your age that their parents were the ones doing the advocating and that they were it was not like unofficial, but it was a lot more like the parent just like telling them what to do with them and then them doing it. It wasn't like as formalized as it might be now with Teachers of the Deaf.
M: Back then we had physicians telling our parents what to do and then they had to relay that information. There weren't laws set in place to say you know these are the minimum requirements for Michelle. I do remember my teacher putting tennis balls on the chairs after finding out about me so it would be quiet. But that's a benefit for everybody.
D: Absolutely.
M: Yeah, I did have a teacher who said I'm loud enough I don't want to wear this. And either me or my mom said no, you have to. [LAUGH]
D: Yeah, that is one of my ah pet peeve things that teachers say and then I go into my whole rant about how it's not about volume it's about clarity. But it is a little frustrating mostly gym teachers I get it from but I do get it from other teachers as well. [LAUGH]
M: Education and awareness. I didn't realize this until recently but one of the coolest things about my elementary school life was my principal utilized a wheelchair. So I had disability awareness and inclusivity around when I was younger. I remember he you know took our class out to the parking lot and showed us how he got into his car and how he drove his car without use of his legs and we're all like this is so cool and now this is now we know that how this is a possibility. So I think it might have started or inspired just there are possibilities outside of what we can physically see and I really appreciated that.
D: Yeah, thinking back if you had had a TOD or just like as an adult thinking about it like what could have a TOD have done to like really support you? Like what would have made the biggest impact do you think?
M: I think advocacy, learning how to say what I needed to say or learning how to figure out what it is that that I need. I mean I meet adults all the time who still don't know how to figure out what they need and they're just frustrated right? So what are the tools? What are the questions you can ask yourself? What is bothering me? OK, is it bothering me because why? And what would help that situation? So how can I get to that solution sooner? I don't know if, sometimes in speech therapy they would do different scenarios. But role modeling, having another person who's potentially been through it or has seen it before like a TOD or an educational audiologist to be able to talk to about like, I wish my hearing aids were invisible, or people notice that my speech is a little bit different and it bothers me. You know? I really think that we did the best with what we could with the tools that we had. I had a carbon paper note taker buddy sitting next to me.
D: Yeah, uh huh.
M: Or I had cart services in college. High school I really thrived as a cultural chameleon you know, looking back I back then was proud that I blended in with the hearing community and now I'm much more, no this is what I am and I would like accessibility.
D: Yeah.
M: I would like inclusivity. So it is what it is. I don't have any regrets. I don't I'm not angry at my parents or anything like that I am just looking to move forward and to help all of those others either you know, just stand on my shoulders, this is what worked for me this is what didn't work for me. How can I get you to that mindset sooner than you know going through 10 years of school and only realizing it in college that this is available. So social media podcasts like yours are so amazing because it's, you're able to bring resources to people sooner and faster.
D: Yeah I think that's really the key is like I think a lot of it does come with maturity like a lot of people will get there eventually just being more confident in who they are like as an adult and like growing into themselves. But like we can help them get there faster. Like a high schooler can get there if they're given like the right support when they're younger, if they're never made to feel like having hearing aids or cochlear implants is bad. Like yes, it's different and that's okay and that's it, is like that just everybody has things that are different about them and you deserve accessibility just like you said it's not something to hide. It's something to just know what you need and know how to ask for it. And I feel like I see a big difference in kids who have services. I work a lot in early intervention because I really love like getting in on like the ground level. But I really see a difference, yeah just literally like I feel like the kids who have strong services when they're little, like the confidence they have talking about their hearing devices in like third, fourth, fifth grade is just so different. They're so like almost like nonchalant about it. They're like yeah I have hearing aids like what about it? Like I need to sit closer, I need this, I need that, like and they just have like a like a confidence about them that I admire because I don't think I had that kind of confidence and in third grade about anything. But I um I think it's it's nice that like we can do that so that like you said like they they might get there with maturity but we can help them reach that level of like confidence a lot sooner if we support them.
M: Yeah, and it's communication, is community, it's opening people's eyes and raising awareness because everything that's around now like in terms of disability wise was around back then but we didn't know maybe.
D: Yeah.
M: So we have so many different resources, technology if you want to use technology, ways of communicating and raising awareness and educating so that we can actually take our minds around it because the biggest struggle is up here.
D: Right.
M: I tell parents all the time it's harder on you than it is on your kid. Your kid has the tools that they have and they have the life that they have. You are helping guiding a child through a journey that you may not have been through. Or if you have been, they're going through the journey with different sets of tools, different resources, completely different environments and bottom line completely different parents. I'm a much different parent to my children than my mom was to me. Maybe I'm this way because they were that way or in spite of that way.
D: Yeah, speaking of parents, do you have any tips for TODs who want to support parents? Like usually most of us are working like within the confines of a school system. So it's a little bit different maybe not as direct but I know you do do a lot of work in supporting parents especially of like newly diagnosed children. So I like I love what you just said like about that phrasing, I feel like that's really helpful that if you're talking to a parent who's having a hard time you can use that kind of phrasing when you're talking to them. So if you have any tips for supporting parents especially for like school age children I'd love to hear them.
M: Create a safe space for them. Give them time to get comfortable with you and one of of the most valuable tools that you have as a health care clinician or health care provider is silence. Like that comfortable silence where they can feel safe coming to you with what they may think is the dumbest question ever. But if hindering them from you know making a play date with another mom or purchasing I don't know a visual board for their kid because they don't want to draw attention to the fact that their family you know has a disability or that they are a deaf and hard of hearing family. So giving them a sense of safe community and it could be open office hours. It could be you're vulnerable with them about something that's going on in your life. It could be polling them and asking like when can we do a meetup. And even if this's like 0 attended 0 attended 0 attended, still have it because that could be the saving grace for one mom or a dad. Because I know sometimes it's a pain in the butt to organize something for everybody and find a time for them all to meet but when you can create a connection between you and them and then within each other that's when it starts to come closer closer together. And I like doing things that don't even revolve around anything DHH. Cool you wanna have a smoothie date? Great. We're gonna work in noise, we're going to come up with a whole bunch of different ingredients, we're going to cook something. It's going to be nutritious or it's going to be totally like sugary sweet or whatever and then get excited and you know like the little kids will bond or you know they'll find out oh my gosh, we both like race cars or we both like kitty cats. Whatever it is and you go from there. So just so much of the world now is child led. Well why not, why can't the adults be led too? You know why, why can't we be treated like young ones and have fun also. Because I used to have speech therapy as an adult or a teenager I'm like man this is so boring now. Now we don't get to play the games, I found you know.
D: Uh huh, that's funny. Well maybe you know if people who do adult rehab should get some some games. [LAUGH]
M: I really love crocheting. Okay, let's do a whole thing around that we'll have a conversation, whatever.
D: I think that's really good advice to remember that like the parents are like not just parents like they're individual people with their own like emotions and their own feelings and their own personalities and like they have interests outside of their children and like, that's a lot of good ways to create that safe space for them. And then just to focus on like you said like maybe listening more than speaking and just giving them that space to talk. I've also noticed that I tend to be one of those people that like tries to jump in with a solution at every turn and like I have to like remind myself they're not looking for a solution in this moment. They're just looking for me to hear them so I just need to like take a step back and just let them vent or talk or cry or whatever it is and then when the time is right we can figure out we can come to a solution together instead of me just trying to put a band-aid on everything because they are going through their own journey that's separate from what their kids are going through.
M: And we work with children all of the time take a look and see if you can step back and look at the child in that parent because that's what they're reverting to. Their instincts are still that 5 year old self. So if they're along this journey they're you know they don't know how to work an FM system or they don't know how to gracefully yet assertively advocate for their child, teach them. And ask them like do you feel and uncertain how to do this? Do you would you like to role play? And when the words come out of their mouth with you, they can do it again in another scenario or try out different phrases that they would feel comfortable with. You're that safe place.
D: Yeah I find that as like the TOD where that becomes the most helpful is actually for like extracurriculars. Like a lot of the times if I'm on the team with them like the child is usually getting services like you, you know we're like swimming along doing our thing. But then what I actually end up talking to some about when it comes to advocacy a lot of times is like, hey like they want to do gymnastics. What do I need to know? Like what do I need to tell the coach? And like a lot of times they do know what they need to tell the coach but they just need to like talk it out with somebody first, like they just want to make sure they're not missing anything. And like earlier like in my career I would say like oh I'll come with you I'll talk to the coach and now I'm like no you talk to the coach. I will help you but you you have every power in you to do this. Yeah.
M: You can give them a script. Like what do you want to say? What are the 3 things that you want? Because sometimes they'll even do it with my husband with a difficult like conversation I'll be like hold on because I'm clear. But then when I'm you know in it I'm like I just forgot everything I wanted to say okay, the 3....
D: [LAUGH]
M: ...things I want to do are I want to talk to you about this, I want to get a solution for that, and then I want to plan something else. OK can we do that now? And you know and like just, just read or something.
D: Yeah, it's super helpful and like sometimes that's the type of advocacy that they need. It's not even sometimes school related. It's just they want access to all the everything else that everyone else does. But they feel, like you said, that like resistance and even if it feels like quote unquote silly to them like it's just like like of course they could do gymnastics like why not? Like they just they just need to get over that mental hump and then they can advocate for their child to wear the mini mic or whatever like it is that the gym coach needs to do for them to be able to do gymnastics successfully. But I think that's helpful.
M: That's why that's why with devices in clinic I am like here you go. Go ahead and take a look at it and I will do it with my own processor like this comes off, this comes off, or you know most of the time they're getting 2 devices. So I'll have them model it with me and I said I'd rather have you do it in front of me so I can tell you if you might be going down the path of breaking it or something or break it in front of me so that you can feel like where's the threshold. Or they're gonna click new batteries on a cochlear implant processor almost always feel like they're gonna break that first time but guess what, they're not going to do it or if you want me to let me do it. So now it's a little bit more warmed up and loose. Okay, go ahead. This is how I'm going to do it. I'm going to take all of these pieces apart, you put it together now we practice and I'm right here to help you and you can take video or take pictures if you want.
D: Yeah. I actually do that with the kids too like not taking them fully apart [LAUGH] but like just like with cleaning them or like just like knowing what the parts are like if this part breaks what do you do? And like we do it together and like a safe space so that way they're not just like destroying their equipment. But it's you know, giving them like permission to like figure it out and then that way when they have to do it independently for whatever reason it's not the first time they're like taking that piece off you know.
M: Yeah, another thing I love doing is giving parents conversation starters or role play scenario slash exercises because most of the time you're talking to mom right? The mom takes this information home to dad and this way they can bond and grow together as a deaf and hard of hearing family or team. Oftentimes it's you know mom's at that appointment. Okay, we're taking a look at this type of hearing, these are the tactics that he or she may need if you choose devices or if you choose to use visual language. How can we build up upon that and mom goes home and she might not know how to communicate planning or you know overcoming a challenge together that they've never seen before. So what can I do to bring them together because they're the team. It's not you know me and mom against dad or anything. My job as an audiologist or a provider is to give you the resources and information so that you guys can make the decisions as a team because you know your family dynamic best. You actually truly know your child best. Even though I've seen them in this environment so many times I can give you the factual or the point blank information. But what do you do day to day? How do you tackle and communicate about different scenarios, experiences, challenges? Because that's the rest of your life.
D: Yeah.
M: Yeah, like how do you deal with you know a broken phone or a broken processor is going to help them later in life. How do you deal with ah with a flat tire?
D: Yeah, definitely. [LAUGH]
M: Stretch... but as a team, you know what I'm saying.
D: Yeah, just dealing with a mechanical failures as a team, variety of things can break in your life. [LAUGH]
M: It builds that mindset it builds that resilience and your mentality of okay do I want to freak out about this get emotionally attached about something and then go you know down a rabbit hole of sorrow? Or do I want to be able to to take a breath. You know like Daniel Tiger count 1 2 3 4 [DEEP BREATH] okay I'm being bullied. It doesn't make me feel good. Alright? So what can I do? I can walk away, I can tell a grownup, I can tell a friend, I could say hey can you please stop that, I could hit them I could run away. Where is my best choice here? And what like based on maybe an outcome of some time that I've done it before. Or maybe I role play this with Deanna and I feel pretty good about that one I'm going to try this choice. Oo it worked maybe that's gonna be my repetitive choice from now on or something.
D: Yeah I think that's really like a powerful way to think about it because it's, it is true that you know there's all these different ways you can respond and if you practice some of the better ways with therapists or teacher or audiologist then that might become your go to when you're feeling stressed in the moment.
M: Yeah.
D: Awesome. Okay, switching gears a little bit because I wanted to make sure we get to this topic. A lot of the times, and we touched on it before, when I'm working on self advocacy with kids like in school one of the hardest things to work on is answering those questions like, I wish my hearing aid was invisible or, is my hearing loss going to go away? Things like that where I want to build up their self-esteem and their self-confidence but it can be hard and it can be individual but I was wondering if you had any tips on how like maybe you grew your own self-esteem or how adults helped you or just in general any tips for helping kids like accept and love themselves.
M: You are such a nurturer Deanna.
D: [LAUGH]
M: I go back to my motto of meet them where they're at instead of focusing on a solution, see where they are. OK, you wish your devices were invisible. Why? What would be different if your devices were invisible? Well maybe Tommy wouldn't be poking fun at me or you know, Emily wouldn't ask me what it is all the time or whatever it is. And say okay got it so it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable when people ask you? What if they're curious about it because they've never seen what it is? What if it's green and that's their favorite color and they really want one too? And they'll just be like oh... when they can see and open their eyes to a different perspective is when progress and acceptance can start to grow.
D: I like that specific thing you said like what, I can't remember the exact words but like specifically like what bothers you about that like why do you feel that way because I feel like...
M: Getting to the root of...
D: Seriously yeah.
M: the complaint or something and when people especially children or the child in adults feel seen and heard is when growth or change can happen. So if I'm stuck in a thought and like I am going through so much turmoil, I'm emotionally attached to the outcome that's not going to happen. Well if I don't ever talk about that emotional attachment of what it is that I'm upset about I'll never move on. So a lot of times parents are stuck in grieving the childhood that they thought their children would have now that they've gotten an identification of Deaf or hard of hearing, okay.
D: Mhmm.
M: And parenthood moving so fast can keep them in that grief or that state of being stuck for a very long time. If you talk to them about it and they realize, oh I'm stuck or I'm holding on to you know the fact that my child will I don't know never experienced this roller coaster back home in Ohio you know, bad example. Um [LAUGH]
D: No, but it's not though because like I always ask parents like um like what are your hopes and dreams for your child and like like what is it, you want for them like in life? And people tell me things that I never would have expected. Like a lot, some people are just I want them to be happy. Great. Some people I want them to go to quote normal school, like OK. Like some people are like I want them to get married. And I'm like like these are not things that I would have, like that's not my priority, but like but like, you hear it all the time and like you can't impose your own priorities on people.
M: You can't.
D: So if that's what's important to them like I can work with that like if you're biggest thing if you're afraid that they can't go to normal school like that's, I can dispel that belief. We can talk about all the different options like if that's what you're focusing on, how was I supposed to know it's what you're focusing on? [LAUGH] Like I wouldn't unless I asked and I guess that works with the kids too like asking specifically what's bothering them and then addressing that specific thing instead of imposing on what you think the problem.
M: Yeah meeting them where they're at because I had a mom who you know she saw engagement ring on me and was like oh my gosh and you so started crying because and I said what's going on? She said that means my son will be able to get married and be loved. You know she was stuck on that and I here I am like I'm the kid I'm the deaf kid of a hearing parent like why wouldn't I be able to get married? Why wouldn't I be able to have someone to love me? But that's what the mom was afraid of and that's her own thoughts projecting onto her son. But when I addressed it she was like oh yeah, like of course. You know we never know and parenting is hard. Parenting is hard because you have a whole lifetime of challenges that you went through and your idea of how things are supposed to were not supposed to be and then you have this almost mini me that is taking a life of his or her own and you're like wait aren't you supposed to do it this way or that way? Like I read a book Conscious Parenting where I just re-meet my kids all the time. Like wow sure she has some similarities to me but dang she's like so bold and funny. Where does that come from? I want to meet this kid again tomorrow morning when they wake up. What are they going to come up with? So my job is just kind of like as a health care provider to provide information and resources and like safe boundaries for my kids to just grow up to be the whoever they were supposed to be.
D: Yeah, that's really powerful. I feel like as teachers it's obviously not the same but it's really nice to be able to just like help support those kids in becoming whatever they're meant to become like because it's just, especially when you're just there to provide support like that's part of why I like being like a Teacher of the Deaf versus like a classroom teacher is that it's all individual. So like I'm just there to like give them whatever they need and meet them where they're at like and sometimes that's a vocabulary practice and sometimes that's just like a conversation about their hearing aids. But it's nice to just like take it day by day and just like, like you said meet them where they're at and help support them in the path that they're on and becoming who they're going to be and it's very, it's like special to be a part of that when you really stop and think about it.
M: Yeah, sometimes meeting them where they're at means hands off. Sometimes it's like tell me exactly what I'm supposed to do step 1 2 3 4 5 you know. And so your relationship with each kid is going to be different, your relationship with each parent is going to be different.
D: And I really feel like it ebbs and flows like I've had high schoolers where I like go months with pretty low contact like I'm there like I'm supporting them but certainly in the background and then something will happen or we’ll be approaching something and we'll have a meeting and all of a sudden I'll be there to support them in a specific issue. Maybe it's they're looking at colleges and all of a sudden they're like wait a second like I need your help now. Like I didn't need your help three months ago and I didn't want to talk to you but [LAUGH] I need your help now.
M: That's their process of also learning like oh maybe I should start packing batteries in my backpack or with a certain teacher or oh Deanna isn't always going to be available so what do I do? Can I make my own troubleshooting kit? Can I you know, I don't know make sure I charge put an alarm on my phone every night to make sure that I charge my remote mic or something like that. And communication wise like oh I'm going to make a sticky note because I need to tell my teacher blah blah blah so that we don't forget this on the next field trip, like I want to have access.
D: Yeah, it's definitely true that you learn things like by trying and failing a little bit. Like I remember this is so random. The first time I ever went to like a sleep away camp, it was like a volleyball camp and I had to bring all of my like volleyball stuff like my socks and my knee pads through whatever like to the gym like from the cabin. I forgot something every single day of that camp because my mom was so on top of doing everything for me all the time which I love her for that like thank you. But as soon I had a shred of independence I was a mess like I couldn't do anything. [LAUGH]
M: You learn.
D: And I was like 14 I wasn't that young you know? And it was funny because I was like wow like I got to get it together like because I really, I was really reliant on the adult helping me and I didn't realize it until I had a little bit of room to mess up a little bit so I do feel like a lot of TODs struggle with their high schoolers because they don't want the help and what my stance has always been I'm there I'm like in the background and I will give you a long leash, so to speak. Like I will let you try on your own and if you're successful, fantastic! I will not change a thing. I am just here if you need me. But if you struggle then we can together look at what happened and figure out ways for that not to happen again. So if you decide not to use your mic I'm not gonna force a sixteen year old to use a mic if they don't want to. But if you get a C in that class and you're not happy with the C, what can we fix? Like is it the mic? Is it your seating? Is it the notes? Like we can help them evaluate what went wrong and fix it. Obviously I would rather prevent. I don't want them to fail before I help them but some kids they have to go through that to really learn and that's okay, that's what school is for.
M: But you also need to empower them into wanting it and this is what I love about vision boarding or just talking about future goals with kids because say like okay I really want to be able to buy a pink puffy jacket around Christmas time. Alright so what are we going to do about it? We're gonna take a look at pink puffy jackets for you and how much are they, OK we need to save. What do you think we, how much do you think we need to save a week? Or my kids you know oh no, we forgot, my kids they're five and a half and four, we forgot a stuffy three days in a row. Got it, OK is this mommy's job or is this your job? And they say mommy's job. Actually it's your job if you want to have your stuffy how about we put a sticky note on the door, did we bring our stuffy? Or we have a note on, I carry all their backpacks and stuff in one giant bag so it's just one one thing for me to carry. What do we need to put into our bag? We need our lunches, we need our stuffies, we need our water bottles, and we need a warm coat because it's getting cold now, OK. And now they start to say hey mommy is everything in there hold on we need 4 things and okay, what are those 4 things? And they start to take ownership of it. Because my mom did everything when I was younger too.
D: I was gonna say your kids will not be forgetting their socks at volleyball camp [LAUGH]
M: Because they are going to learn they know the sadness that comes when they don't have a stuffy or if they forget their lunch or something. Because you know what I'm doing a whole bunch of things for you and I think one of the best things is letting them struggle and letting them feel like oh this is kind of like what responsibility is it. It feels good when you know they're beaming like I got everything I need to go I'm ready to go. Let's go.
D: Yeah, and I think you're right to do it as young as possible. Like even with our kids like if they start resisting me in middle school I'd rather we do this whole song and dance in middle school when the grades don't really matter so much so that way they try the independence, they see what works, they see what doesn't, and then we adjust from there. And then they learn going into high school I have the tools to advocate for myself, I know what I need, I know what classes I need the mic and I know what classes I can get away with not using it and like, hey if that works for you that works for you. That's your life. But I am going to be right there watching and if anything starts to slide I'm going to be there to help you adjust because when you get to college I won't be there to help you adjust. So I can't be there to fix everything for you. So the earlier I can start having you take ownership of your learning and have the tools to realize what's wrong and to fix it, that's good. But like you said sometimes that means they have to forget the stuffy, they have to do poorly on a test, like it's okay to let go of the control enough to let them experience a little bit of consequences.
M: Consequences or just like pain because like when they forgot the stuffy she was like mommy we forgot my stuffy or I think she might have said you forgot to pack my stuffy. And I said oh my gosh I'm just so sorry is making you really sad, what can we do about it? You know instead of well you forgot your stuffy that was your responsibility instead of making them wrong, again meet them where they're at, make them feel seen and heard not wrong or bad or that they were forgetful. Life happened you know so.
D: Yeah I still forget stuff.
M: You learn how to roll with things.
D: Absolutely I think that's a really helpful way to frame it especially when you're working with these like soft skills that are no one teaches you how to teach it. You just kind of got to figure it out and I think that that's a really helpful way to frame it.
M: I've told them like I want them to have as many challenges as they can while they live under my wing or in my house or however long it is. Though I'm not going to kick them out when or 18 you know. What is that, what is is your goal? Okay, how can I support that. And guess what? One large way that I'm going to support you is let's talk about it. What's going on through your brain or your scenarios that you can use your tools and stretch yourself a little bit there.
D: Yeah, absolutely that is so helpful. Before we go is there any like last minute like tips, advice, resources, that you'd like to share with itinerant teachers?
M: Meet your children where they're at, meet your teachers where you're at, meet yourself where you're at. If you have a whole bunch of kids failing don't take it on yourself. Don't think that is your fault. Instead of think of what you can, what can you do? How can I work to get together with my team in this situation so that we can all win? Nobody is wrong basically.
D: Yeah, that's really helpful, thank you. Can you share where everyone can follow you online, any resources that you have available?
M: Yeah I am on Instagram at mama.hu.hears, yhat's my maiden name, dot H E A R S. Same for my website. I have an online resource for hearing parents of Deaf and hard of hearing kiddos. I've got cool merchandise. Please check it out and feel free to DM me, feel free to message me. I love connecting with you all.
D: The merchandise is very cute. You should definitely go check that out I love the pattern that you made is so cute I love the colors.
M: Thank you free shipping on orders more than $75!
D: Amazing I'll link all of that stuff so you can find Michelle if you want in the show notes. All the other links, info, transcripts, all that good stuff will be in the show notes or at listentotodpod.com. Have a fantastic week and I'll see you next time. Bye!
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